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Talk:Majora
68.41.122.213 14:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC) :*I took that part out. Last time I checked, masks don't have genders.--Herbsewell 14:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC) ::I'm gonna revert that. There are several reasons why Majora can be a female. :::Feminine shrieks :::Long hair as Majora's Mask :::Doing Ballet dances as the Incarnation and behaving like a giddy little girl :::As Majora's Wrath, the eyes of the mask appear to be breasts. :: :*How can it have a sex, it's a mask?--Herbsewell 02:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC) ::Majora is not a mask. Its the deity inhabiting the mask. Its the spirit of a living thing inside the Mask. :::Ah, that's explains it. Sorry if I don't know to much about Majora but I never played the game.--Herbsewell 18:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC) isnt Majora the cutest thing youve seen? : Well, if you want to get down to it, I think Majora is a male. It incarnates itself as a male child inside the moon, for starters. When it bulks up it has a distinctly male build. Also, the high-pitched voice is a cliche that's used to illustrate insanity. So, IF Majora has a gender at all, it's probably male. Godhood Is Majora a god or is it just some kind of wield spirit / ghost / crazed human who prossesed a mask? Here's what I think about Majora: A strange being was defeated by someone and turned into a mask (Majora's Mask). That mask possessed the skull kid when he put it on, but was defeated by link. So his being was then non-corporeal. Then he went to Koholint Island and was the leader of the Nightmares, but was again defeated by link. Later he possessed a minish named Vaati and was defeated three times before abandoning him. Later Hyrule was flooded and he wandered into the Temple of the Ocean King, which healed him and gave him back his original form, Bellum. He took over the temple, but link defeated him again. If you've been counting, than see that he's been defeated seven times, which is the number of times that is needed to truly destroy him. So according to that he is not a god, he is just someone who needed to be locked away into a mask. Fused Shadow 15:32, 23 December 2007 (UTC) Omni Bahamut Vaati 02:04, 19 January 2008 (UTC)I belive Majora has no gender.so it's most likely an it. Melanie Rachel Ravenswood 08:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)It can destory an entire planet so it may be a god.Also I consider it to be the strongest being in Zelda. What evidence or implications are there that ANY of those four villains are connected? First of all, Majora exists only in Termina, whereas all those other villains are in Hyrule (With the possible exception of Bellum, who may have been part of another world, as implied at the end of the game). Also, Dethl (The Nightmare), along with the rest of Kolohint Island, is part of the Wind Fish's (And Link's) dream. And Vaati clearly has a personality of his own. Bellum could not be Majora's original form, because Majora's Wrath is either Majora's original form, or is very similar to his/her/its original form. Plus, if they're all one being, why would Majora take on 3 names (Vaati doesn't count because Vaati would have been already named before Majora could have possessed him)? And why would he/she/it look so different in Majora's Wrath form and Dethl form? And that's just the stuff that I came up with off the top of my head. Honestly, I really don't think your theory holds well. Xykeb Zraliv 12:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC) :Hehe, if you were to check every theory on this page, you'd find a lot of theories that don't "hold well". --AuronKaizer 13:05, 6 June 2008 (UTC) Well, at least those theories that don't hold well are influenced by some implication, whereas this person seems to think this only to make sense of and connect the main villains of Zelda, without any real proof or suggestions as to why it COULD be true. Xykeb Zraliv 13:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC) The game left off with the very strong implication (but not the outright statement) that Majora was killed. Last time I checked Gods don't die so if he is a God he'll return to torment Link in a future sequel (which isn't entirely nonsensical since most of the best villain ideas for the Zelda series have been used up). --Flashpenny (talk) 01:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC) religons kind of condritic themselves ALOT (kind of like nintendo). so their death is disputable. besides it all depends on what religion you mean. obviously in a montestic religion the god cant die because then the the whole religion would get very confused Oni Link 18:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC) gender it's genderless I also think it's male but for a different reason. During that one scene where Majora talked the lilt it had seemed masculine. I mean really it just wouldn't sound right if a woman's voice said "I will consume... EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!" --Big Poe=Nice Guy (talk) 20:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Majora, Majora's Mask boss, Majora's Mask mask id vote for that merge but keep the boss pages seperate Oni Link 21:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC) we have the same page for goron link and goron mask so why not have the same page on majora and the pysical form he takes? its much the same info anyway. Oni Link 22:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Counterpart? captain keeta, deku king, buttler, princess all of the monkeys, kokiri and garo there are plenty of people who dont have counter parts. the hole counter par thing wa just to give a different feel yet still maintain the ocarina of timeish feeling. Oni Link 18:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC) while we're pointlessly listing them i might as well add the Rosa Sisters, the beavers, the picture guy in the swamp, tingle, the mayors secetary, link goro and link of the gorons neither are counter parts of the other, the keaton the giant turtlue, the great deku tree and sprout, lord jabu jabu and epona. infact while i think about it there are no horses in termina. the gormon brothers suggest stealing one from the ranch when epona is the only one there. hm.. anyway i think thats everyone. Oni Link 21:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC) nintendo reused character models, and excused it away that Termania is parrell(mirrored whatever) to Hyrule, or at least in part. but it is almost completely different in everyother regard. thats how i look at it, and after playing through part of the game, i can see how it makes sense. they obvioulsy had to make new things, in order to make it newer(not that the idea was totally fresh, orginal and creative), but in order to make the game so quickly after OoT, they had to have reused some models.(sry that this is so long, im in too righting essays today :P)'--C2' 23:53, 26 August 2009 (UTC) Majora need help Majula? sooo uhhh....wat? Masks are Common for Twili, no? theory of majora Peter 10 (talk) 01:40, August 23, 2011 (UTC) :First off thank you for coming to the talk page with the issue rather than putting it up again. The problem here is that the only supporting evidence is that if the theory that the Fierce Deity is Link's Terminan equivalent is true, and if the theory that the Fierce Deity once defeated Majora is also true, Link's equivalent would have defeated a great evil, so maybe it could be Ganondorf. Since the only supporting evidence is based solely on two other theories, this is already very week. Second, even that evidence is refutable: Power level, good/evil alignment, and relationship to other characters are all not necessarily preserved between Hyrulean and Terminan equivalents. Koume and Kotake for example are not powerful evil witches in Termina, but friendly business owners, and Mr. Barten has no relation to Romani/Cremia even though their Hyrulean equivalents are a family. Basically the evil overlord status and possible defeat at the hands of Link is not something we can assume will be consistent across the two worlds. Since the only thing that is consistently the same between Hyrulean and Terminan counterparts is appearance, and none of Majora's appearances look remotely like Ganondorf (its voice included), there's just no particularly good reason to think that this theory is true. Majora is just as likely to be the Terminan equivalent of Vaati, or Veran, or the Wind Fish. There are some theories on the sight that are stretching it, and you may even have seen some that we should really remove, but generally they are going to have at least a single more solid connection going for them even if they are not extremely likely on the whole. Did that clarify anything?--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 02:20, August 23, 2011 (UTC) I'm not basing it on the other theory, the other theory is supported by this theory but that does not mean this theory spawned from that one. One reason it may be true is that although an alarming large number of characters in Ocarina of Time have counterparts in Termina, the three major exceptions are Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. As the Zelda series established that the conflict between Link and Ganondorf is so large it rings throughout time and space causing Ganondorf to hunt down every version of Link, it's not that far of a stretch saying a being from an alternate version of Hyrule with great dark power who was taken down by a hero then came back, only to be defeated by Link would be Ganondorf's counterpart. If you then say that Majora is Ganondorf's counterpart, than many of the skull kid's action make sense, traveling outside of Termina to pick on Link because the mask is drawn towards to Link to exact its revenge on a hero, the giving of the Great Deity mask to Link make sense, especially if you believe the theory about Feirce Deity being Link's counterpart. Peter 10 (talk) 02:59, August 23, 2011 (UTC) :Ok, so lets ditch the FD being Link's counterpart aspect of this then. We're still left with Majora and Ganondorf, two characters with a vast number of differences who's only shared characteristic is that they are both very powerful and very evil (they are evil in different ways mind you, and have very different goals). As I was saying with the examples in my last post, Terminan equivalents to Hyruleans don't always maintain such characteristics, so to assume that Majora's power and evil attach him to Ganondorf is just not a connection we can make. Besides, even if we did assume that evil/power were preserved in this instance, there's nothing pointing to Ganondorf that wouldn't also point to Vaati, Onox, Veran, Zant, Ghirahim, Bellum, Nightmare, etc.. The one single thing that we always see that is consistent between Hyrulean and Terminan equivalents is a similar appearance. Ganodorf looks nothing like Majora. He doesn't act like Majora. The connection basically boils down to them both being main villains. The same logic could be used to say that Zant is another incarnation of Vaat.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 04:29, August 23, 2011 (UTC) Fierce Deku is right the only similarity is the main antagonism. Anyway if something is confusing anyone is that the article seems to have a lot of unnecessary theories.—'TheNewSheik' 05:48, August 24, 2011 (UTC) My point is that although not all of the Hyrule/Termina counterparts are the same, it does make sense that the especially strong personalities (such as Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf) would follow the basic guide lines. Malon is a character that seems to be brought back in many games along with Link and Zelda and her character isn't to different in various versions, including her Termina counterpart. Considering the fact that these characters seem to always follow the same basic guidelines and the fact that there is no mention of Ganondorf or his Termina counterpart, I don't think it's too far of a stretch to suggest the possibility that Majora, a person of great power and great evil, would be the counterpart of Ganondorf, especially since we don't really know what he even looks like. There are theories that Majora was everything from a dragon who ate people and existed outside of time to the Happy Mask Salesman himself. I could go on about it's wouldn't be that hard to believe since Ganondorf has been the main villain in almost every Zelda game, or about how Majora's mask changes forms in the final battle much like Ganondorf turning into Ganon, but I'm not. Remember, I'm not asking you to believe this theory, I'm just asking you to let me put it in the theories section, so please, just give it a chance. Peter 10 (talk) 02:54, August 25, 2011 (UTC) :First off, form changes happen with pretty much every final boss. Part of this might be that we just need more opinions (we're getting into the repeating ourselves portion of the discussion). As far as the other similarly out there theories, this theory section is just a pain because A) Majora is so mysterious that you can't absolutely disprove much, and B) There are a some widespread popular theories that may be worth a mention just for that reason. I'm constantly struggling with whether I think we should remove a lot of the theories currently up. One thing with that first theory for example, is that while it may be just as much of a stretch as Ganon being Majora, it has several interesting points to make about the lunar children situation and various similarities between things. These things are components of a lot of other theories and as such we're more inclined to mention them somewhere. :With this theory though, Ganon and Majora not only have many differences, but the whole theory hinges entirely on one, broad, vague, and not especially strong similarity; both of them being main villains. The very different looks and voices also still bother me since that's the one thing that we always see stay the same between equivalents (granted we've not necessarily seen Majora's true form, if one ever existed, but the forms we see may share some similarity with it. That voice and shape have to originate from somewhere, and it doesn't seem like Ganondorf is that somwhere.). There's also still the fact that someone like Vaati or Zant is an equally good candidate for Majora's identity. Again, maybe what we really need here is more people's opinions, but those are my own thoughts at the moment.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 04:31, August 25, 2011 (UTC) Well also there's a theory in there about how Majora might be a demon. Since Ganon was a demon that transformed Ganondorf, or that Ganondorf turned into, couldn't Majora be the Termina counterpart of Ganon (not Ganondorf per say). If you follow that train of thought it also makes sense, just like Majora was resurrected through the skull kid, Ganon was resurrected through Ganondorf. This theory could be added on to the bottom of the demon theory. Peter 10 (talk) 22:03, August 25, 2011 (UTC) Bear in mind not every character has both a known Teminan and Hylian counter part. The list of those who don't is actually quite long and there is no real reason that Link, Zelda, Ganondorf or an of the others need to have a counter part Oni Link 22:12, August 25, 2011 (UTC) :Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Ganon is never said to be an at all separate entity from Ganondorf. That's just an unsupported theory. Every time we see multiple forms of Ganon it's just because he acquired some great power and was able to transform into something. That doesn't mean the thing he transforms into is a separate being.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 22:38, August 25, 2011 (UTC) I wouldn't say it's an unsupported theory. Multiple times in the series Ganon is referred to as a demon. Some of the incarnations of Ganon are never referred to as Ganondorf to begin with, suggesting that while Ganondorf is "dead" or trapped in the Twilight Realm (depending on the timeline) the demon is taking new hosts which is very similar to the strategy of Majora's mask. The mask finds new hosts until it either finds the best host, or gains more power than the host could continue to provide and then attacks people only to be stopped by a hero. Even in OoT, when Ganondorf turns into Ganon it's because he looses control of the Triforce of power, which could suggest that Ganon took over Ganondorf and used the Triforce's power to turn into the beast he did. But then again, I'm not here to fight about whether Ganon and Ganondorf have always been the same person. Peter 10 (talk) 05:37, August 26, 2011 (UTC) @Oni Dark Link If you referring to the fact that there are many characters in Majora's Mask that are not in Ocarina of Time, I would like to point out that: 1) Obviously OoT was made before MM 2) I never said it was a two way street. Just because most OoT characters (besides the sages) have Termina counterparts does not mean that most Terminians have Hyrule counterparts. I'd also like to point out that it is true not every character as a counter part in MM, but most of the main characters do. The majority if not all the towns people return, the workers at Lon Lon ranch, and even the running man have counter parts. I just think it would be weird for the 3 biggest characters to not have counterparts. Link being Fierce Deity and Ganon being Majora make sense to me. And once again I would like to remind everyone I'm not trying to convince you it's true, I just want you to admit that it's a theory with enough logic behind it to be included in the theory section.Peter 10 (talk) 05:53, August 26, 2011 (UTC) :@first of the recent posts: Ganondorf has also been referred to as a god, that doesn't mean he is one. If I acquired great dark power and took over the world they'd call me a demon too. The reason many Ganon's are never called Ganondorf is because they aren't seen in human form in those games, and Ganondorf/Ganon are generally used to denote the human and beast forms. Actually, human Ganondorf is called Ganon a number of times in WW (probably a mistake in the writing more than anything). The point is it's not ever implied that the two names denote separate beings. And there's no reason to believe that Ganondorf loses control of the Triforce of Power in OoT, in fact he seems to more or less maintain his composure, and his hand gesture implies that he's intentionally using it to transform. There's not really any evidence to support the idea that something possessed any of the Ganons/Ganondorfs, I think the theory was mainly just popularized by people who want the single Ganon theory to be true in the face of increasing evidence against it and got desperate. We don't need to assume an unmentioned demon is possessing people in a universe where Link and Zelda and whoever have umpteen incarnations anyway. This is way off topic yes, but I guess I'm trying to say the above ideas don't really help the Majora/Ganon thing.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 06:33, August 26, 2011 (UTC) :@response to Oni: The list of characters from OoT without Terminan counterparts is considerable and also includes very important characters (though I don't see why prominence in OoT's story matters to this discussion): Saria, Darunia, Nabooru, Impa, Raru, the entire Kokiri race, The Deku Tree, Jabu-Jabu, King Zora, Link the Goron and the Hot Rodder Goron (distinguishable by their size), a number of people in Castle Town/Kakariko that I'm not going to bother to name or describe, Link's equivalency is only a theory, Ganondorf's equivalency is only this theory you're talking about here, and I haven't even heard a theory about Zelda having an equivalent. Clearly there are gaps including people both central and ancillary to OoT's particular plot, as well as an entire race. We also see Terminans like Tingle/???/etc. who have equivalents in other games/time periods, furthering the question of why OoT is so important, and why would Ganondorf be Majora's equivalent and not Vaati/Zant/etc.. Only one of Hyrule's "big three" has anyone who looks anything like them in Termina, so I don't see why we should expect all of them to be seen in the game/exist in Termina. I also don't see why "big deal-ness" would be preserved between the two dimensions when many other traits are not. The connection in this theory is just too broad and vague, and I haven't heard any other supporting evidence that isn't itself a fairly weak theory. Again, I know some of the stuff that's already in the theory section is a stretch on the whole (and some of it may need pruning/rewriting), but it also has specific notable connections that tie the leaps of speculation together.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 06:33, August 26, 2011 (UTC) The sages play a huge role in Ocarina of Time and among them only Ruto gets a counterpart. Malon, Talon and the running man are all minor characters in Ocarina of Time. Importance is not what decided who got a counter part when the were making the game. And to be clear in only two sets of games has Ganon appeared without any mention of Ganondorf. The NES games and the Oracle games one of which was made before the concept of Ganondorf (and the other features Ganondorf's mothers people closely related to the gerudo form). Every other instance Ganondorf has made some appearance either with in game appearance or minor mentions. Oni Link 10:32, August 26, 2011 (UTC) Why was my theory removed Why was this removed from the theory section?It's a normal theory I neither claim to be real or used any swear or slang in? "It is also possible that there is not one but several entities within majora's mask. This theory states that as when it took control over the Moon there is one main entity, Majora that consumes the very souls of the things it destroys. This is given more proof by the fact that it takes many forms during the final battle. It may feed off of the souls for power but an effect of this might be that parts of the souls personality may be 'lodged' inside Majora forever. This would also give reason for Majora to give Link the greatest weapon in the entire series, the Fierce Diety's Mask as it may have been one of the multiple personas Majora has consumed over the years trying to provide a way to destroy Majora and free itself. It may also have been an evil persona wanting to corrupt Link. This theory offers that the reason for Majora's insanity is due to both the power and the souls 'he' must contain and, like some real life cases, the constant power struggle between him and the multiple personas inside him. If this is the case his own struggle for power eventually caused his demise, either giving Link the Fierce Diety mask or the inablity to control his form and having them formed from the souls he absorbed, so in truth he has no true form or rather no longer has one." I believe it might have been in admin so i won't re-post it most likely Dude my theory about Evil Crystals was also removed and i asked why but no one has answered yet...--Longhorn Velez (talk) 21:57, April 6, 2012 (UTC) Do either of you check edit summaries? Both AK and I explained why we removed the theories that we did. I spend way too much time explaining this, but basically, if a theory isn't based in hard fact, then we don't put it up. You can't "assume" things about the series. For instance, I could say that I believe that Majora is actually the spirit of a dead cat, and yes, nothing in the series contradicts that, but nothing actually supports it either. In order for a theory to be accepted it needs to a) make sense and b) be based in enough fact, which neither of your theories were. Sorry, but that's just how we do things. -'Minish Link' 22:00, April 6, 2012 (UTC) Ok i tend to forget that you are an admin and im not, but i thought that the theory template said: "This section contains theoretical information based on the viewpoints or research of one or several other users." but i will do whatever you say boss--Longhorn Velez (talk) 22:06, April 6, 2012 (UTC)